Does Prayer Change Things?

Friday night, June 22, 2007, nine of us gathered to discuss the question “Is prayer merely relational (in that it simply conforms our hearts to the heart of God), or is prayer also functional (in that God actually answers and demonstrates His power as the direct result of our prayer)?” For some of us, this question may seem absurd, whether we come from one bent/tradition or another. But for a seemingly growing number, this question has become a very real issue. Let me explain the issue a little more.

Passages Considered throughout Our Discussion…

(Ex 32:12-14; Num 14:11-25; 23:19; 1 Sam 15:29; 2 Chr 7:14; Mal 3:6; Mat 7:7-11; 18:19; 20:29-34; 21:22; 26:41; Luke 18:1-8; John 14:13-14; 15:16; 16:24; Rom 8:5-6; 9:13-18; Jam 1:5-8; 1:17; 4:2-3; 5:15-18; 1 John 5:14-15)

Further Explanation of the Question above…

Basically… very basically =) as there are many variations… the first part of this question comes from “developed” contemplations and studies on passages such as (Num 23:19; Mal 3:6; Rom 8:29-30; 9:13-18). The results of these studies (whether accurate or inaccurate), is a view of God’s sovereignty (that He is entirely in control without dependence of any kind, on anyone or anything, to do what He does), His perfect and unchanging attributes (that in all He is, all He does, and all that He has predetermined, He will not change, nor waiver, nor change His mind, nor vary in any shape or form from the path that He has chosen and established to be absolutely perfect, and without any need of change), and predestination (that everything is already preplanned… even down to the last breath we breathe) so strong, that it denies prayer any genuine claim to any kind of changing or interactive qualities in relation to the chain of events in our lives, the lives of others, and any actual happening or circumstance, whatsoever. As a result, prayer is merely said to be an action of aligning ourselves and our heart’s with the predetermined “will” of God, as it is predestined to be already.

The second half of this question is the result of contemplations on passages such as (2 Chr 7:14; Mat 18:19; Luke 18:1-8; John 14:13-14; 16:24; Jam 4:2-3; 5:15-18) which seem to very clearly depict that “if God’s people will humble themselves and pray, if we pray in faith, when we do actually ask, when we are persistent in prayer, and when two or three pray together with one heart” then “God will heal our land, heal our sick, give us the power to overcome temptation, fill us with joy as the result of His response, give us what ever it is we ask, glorify His own name,” and when that prayer comes from a persistent and sincere heart, then that prayer will “accomplish much.”

Below are various thoughts from our discussion, as well as some of my own… and if you would like to interject, please do.

Thoughts from Our Discussion…

1) It was Chris’ understanding that, in regards to the original Hebrew culture, when one was taught a principle of action, it was customary to continue one’s learning of that principle through practicing it; rather than first coming to some kind of full understanding of the matter, before it ever actually was applied.

This seems very consistent with how Scripture speaks of prayer as well. Nowhere does it seem to indicate that some kind of deep knowledge (like, how predestination interplay’s with prayer) must be understood before we pray. Rather, the Word simply says that we must have faith (even as a child – Mark 10:15)… and with that faith we are to pray (Luke 18:1-8; Jam 1:5-8)… and when we pray we will receive (Mat 7:7-11).

With this said, what is keeping us from praying… when it simply says “ask, and it will be given to you” (Mat 7:7)? What is keeping us from praying, when it does not specify that any amount of great understanding or wisdom is needed for our prayers to be effective? Or has our “need for more knowledge” become an excuse for our lack of faith and/or spiritual laziness when concerning prayer?

2) Have you ever noticed how little, passages referring to God’s sovereignty, perfect unchanging attributes, and predestination actually have to say about prayer… especially when referring to when and why we are to pray? Have you ever noticed that it is specifically these passages to which Scripture also specifies as a mystery… something difficult, if not impossible for us to comprehend (Rom 11:33-36)? Have you ever noticed, that for the most part, these passages have to be well philosophized before ever reaching the topic of prayer at all?

Have we considered that perhaps passages in His sovereignty were not written for the purpose of teaching us the dynamics of prayer, but to bring comfort and confidence for those of us who place our trust in such a God, and a fear and reality check for those who don’t? Have we considered that perhaps the extent of His sovereignty is a reality and understanding God has chosen to keep to Himself, but that the practice of prayer and interaction with Him; He has specifically given to us to understand (Deut 29:29)?

With all this considered, would it not be more reasonable to form our practical day-to-day understanding of prayer around those passages that speak specifically and clearly of prayer (such as Mat 7:7-11; Jam 5:15-18; etc.)… and allowed God to reveal how His sovereign control interplay’s with our prayer, if and when He decides? Shall we allow the blessings He promises to bestow on those who ask pass us by while we sit here and try to figure this all out… or shall we spend our time believing and praying while we wait for such mysteries to be revealed?

3) In (John 15:16) it says, “You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.” Is it possible, that we were actually predestined to receive when we ask? Or perhaps stated another way… could prayer be the predestined mechanism through which one receives?

4) Was not Christ a perfect representation of the Father here on earth (John 1:18; 14:9-10; Col 1:15; Heb 1:3; 3:1)? If Christ then so interactively answered the questions and cries of those around Him (Mat 8:5-13; 15:22-28; Luke 5:18-25), how can it be any different with our Father who is in heaven?

5) One might of course ask the question, is it that we can just ask for anything… at all… and God will give it to us? (Jam 4:3) seems to answer this very clearly when it says, “You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.”

Referring to (Rom 8:5-6), Moni interjected that when we pray, it is absolutely important that our mind be set on the things of the Spirit… or perhaps it could be stated, that our hearts be in harmony with God’s. From my perspective this makes perfect sense, for what father would not hold back for the good of an obstinate and rebellious son… but then again, what father would not give freely to a son or daughter whose heart and passions are in harmony with his own (Mat 7:7-12)? Did not Christ Himself walk in perfect submission and dependence upon the Father… and in doing so, demonstrate a most beautiful heart and passion for His Father (John 5:19; 6:38; 15:9-10)? And yet, was it not also Christ who openly received, and knew with certainty He would receive, whatever He asked from the Father (Mat 26:53; John 11:41-44)?

Referring to (1 John 5:14-15), Braden inserted the importance of submitting, understanding, and praying according to the will of the Father. While we all agreed that Scripture does not necessarily specify that we need to perfectly understand His will every time before we pray (nor that should we use “but Your will be done” as a blanketed copout for our lack of faith and diligence in understanding His will), there are times when God does desire to reveal to us what we should ask, before we ask… and that in every case, a heart pre- submitted to His answer, is absolutely essential for effective prayer. Someone, somewhere said it something like this, “the difference between the heart of a Pharisees and the heart of an honest Christ follower is, when a Pharisee prays he says, ‘if You explain, I will follow’… but when the honest follower prays he says, ‘I am following, please explain’” (perhaps very similar to the heart described in Luke 18:9-14).

Clarification on the above paragraph: Some may react a little to the statement “nor should we use ‘but Your will be done’ as a blanketed copout for our lack of faith and diligence in understanding His will”, with the argument that it is okay to pray this, especially as it was Christ who prayed something very similar to this in the garden of Gethsemane (Mat 26:39-42). And I say, I agree that there are times when this is not a copout whatsoever (for example, when a person honestly doesn’t know what to ask, but feels burdened to pray)… though for many (even myself sometimes) it seems to be just that, a copout. But in regards to Christ, I wonder if perhaps when He prayed this prayer, He already knew it could not be… not because of a lack of faith that the Father could or would answer, but because He already knew what it was the Father had chosen (John 12:27). And if this is the case, perhaps the real reason for Christ’s prayer was in simply pouring out His agony and inner struggle before an attentively listening and caring Father, that He would not enter into temptation (Mat 26:41… just a thought I’m still chewing on).

Closing Statement…

Well, I think I could keep writing for weeks on the subject. But I shall stop, before I get carried away to who knows where, and let others interject on the matter. That means you, whoever you are at this minute reading this blog. If you would like to participate, whether through questions or comments, please do by simply clicking on the “Post a comment” tab below. And may our God compassionately bless you as you pursue Him for answers for cantankerous questions such as this.